No Such Thing as Talent, Ep. 203

No such thing as talent? Kevin doesn’t think so! In this episode he talks about the idea of talent, aptitude, and inclination as it applies to what you can do and achieve in your life. Tune in to see if you agree. PLUS stick around to the end for a special holiday message from Kevin!

And otherwise, here’s to a merry Christmas, happy holidays, and a wonderful new year!

TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE

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TRANSCRIPT:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

talent, born, people, aptitude, career, writing, flips, understand, advantages, skill, accept, conversation, author, developmental editor, point, limited, talented, hear, inborn talent, feedback

SPEAKERS

Kevin Tumlinson

Kevin Tumlinson 00:01

Hey slingers we haven't had one of these solo slinger episodes in a while so I thought I'd spend a little time today really kind of as we were gearing up towards because I'm recording this. A couple of weeks out from Christmas. It's actually pretty early Christmas wise but I wanted to spend a little time just talking about something that I got into a conversation. Okay, as many of my conversations do this conversation started going in one direction ended up in a completely different direction. But while I was in Vegas for 20 books Vegas. I had a conversation with Nick factor,

Kevin Tumlinson 00:45

and a

Kevin Tumlinson 00:46

couple other authors, actually a cover designer and an author. I don't want to name names, I didn't get their permission Nick, I will out. But, in the course of the conversation. We, we, the topic came up, I don't recall exactly how I think someone made a statement about, you know, maybe this isn't your talent or, you know, something about talent, you know, and I said that I don't believe in talent. And I can almost hear people screeching to a halt. Wherever you're driving stopping your exercise bike or turning off the water because you figure, while you're doing your dishes you figure maybe you're not hearing that quite correctly. And I can understand why but hear me out. So, talent is this concept. Now, there's a dictionary definition I could probably drum up about aptitudes and that sort of thing now I do believe in aptitudes. What I don't believe in is inborn talent for certain things, as if you were born with this ability. And, you know, you didn't have to do anything beyond being born to to automatically be good at something. I don't want to. I don't want to get off in the weeds here but I, but here's here's what I here's where I was coming from. And you can tell that this is an earnest and honest conversation, because I haven't. I haven't written anything down. I'm just kind of rolling through kind of giving you the gist of what I believe here, and it is just that it's my belief, it's not, I'm not going to try to prove to you that there's something to this, but I I'm kind of hoping that by the end of this you'll you'll agree with my whole premise here but here's the deal. So, I do believe that people can be born with certain aptitudes certain inclinations, you know, maybe they are better at physical activities and other people, you know I don't really consider that a talent. Some people do. But let's just take tiger woods for example Tiger Woods is kind of known, maybe, maybe this isn't as true now as it once was, but he's like the best golfer in the world. I just don't believe that you can be born a talented golfer, that's a skill you acquire right now. Does he have certain inclinations toward that. Sure. You know he developed a passion for it early on, or his parents developed it on his behalf, I guess. I heard all kinds of things about Tiger Woods I have not studied Tiger Woods so bear with me but

Kevin Tumlinson 03:35

you know that

Kevin Tumlinson 03:37

when you've got one kid born and taught to play this game, and is nurtured through this game. How much of that can you really call inborn talent by the time it's done. He might have certain, you know genetic advantages or physical advantages for that sport, but you can't, it's hard for me to justify this idea

Kevin Tumlinson 03:59

that

Kevin Tumlinson 04:00

he was born to play golf. Same with. Is it Michael Phelps, the swimmer. Michael Phelps, so you know, there was a comment made that you know he was born with a genetic advantage to be a swimmer. And I gotta honestly tell you I don't believe that. I think he may have some genetic advantage some genetic quirk or mutation that might have benefit him as a swimmer, but to to pin his career on that would be a travesty I think because, who's to say, where that would have led had he say grown up in the mountains and became a rock climber, or he decided that he he really enjoyed running, or he enjoyed basketball or hockey or, you know, any other activity. So, it's hard for me to justify this idea that you can be born with a talent for something like that talent for painting a talent for writing any anything that we described as a talent, I have a really difficult time with that. That concept. I think you can have aptitudes but here's where I think this is what I think differentiates the great masters of something, versus those who are just, you know, kind of dabbling in it. I think it is all about 100% from the time you're born to the time you die. It's all about how much you wanted. Here's where things got mixed up in my opinion. So in our conversation is came up a lot. The, the designer, that we were hanging with guy I really liked I really enjoyed everybody that was there I really enjoyed talking to everybody and, and I think I was kind of hacking everybody off with my stance on this but I genuinely nervously was trying to, kind of, you know, explain why I believe this and why why I don't believe in inborn talent as a guide to your success. You know he mentioned that his son has a friend who is just really good at doing like flips, you know, backflips forward flips and that sort of thing. And then his son can do them. But isn't nearly as good at it right now. Does that can have a physical aptitude for doing that maybe he might have some, some genetic advantage for doing flips, but it's not that's not a talent. talent would be you know in the way we just use it and describe it, it tends to be things like he's a very very talented painter, which I've, I've always had a problem with because perhaps, he's good with color perhaps he has a steady hand perhaps he understands the spatial relationships between you know subject and background and that sort of thing. But it's not like they were born with a paintbrush in our hand. You see, like it's not like if you're a writer. And there are writers who are better than you. It's not that they were born with a special gift for writing their bodies, their genes, their DNA had no idea what writing was they had to learn that. And when they learned it something clicked with them. And that's something to me. It just made me. I thought I turn that off. That's something to me is not talent that something is desire passion interest, we become interested in something, and whether that's conscious or subconscious, and we gravitate toward it. We find that we like it, usually it's because we find that we're, we're naturally skilled at it. Being naturally skilled at something is not the same thing as talent. So, in the case of the kids doing the flips. You know, I,

Kevin Tumlinson 08:02

I said, Well, I just got deep into later. You know well first of all the kids doing the flips I think one kid might have more natural aptitude towards that. That doesn't mean the other kid can't learn to do it. It might mean it would be harder for them. But I firmly firmly believe that we all have the, the potential to learn to be successful in anything we try to do, and we might have to find different ways to approach it. I might not be able to slam dunk a basketball, as easily as say, Michael Jordan. Okay. But I could learn to slam dunk a basketball I could train myself until I can slam dunk a basketball. It's not going to come as naturally and easily to me. This is a tough one to prove by the way cuz I got no interest in learning how to slam dunk basketball, but I have definitely seen guys who were far shorter than Michael Jordan heavier than Michael Jordan, who just trained and trained and trained until they could do it.

Kevin Tumlinson 09:07

That

Kevin Tumlinson 09:09

I will argue until the day I die, is not that that's not about talent. It can be about aptitude and inclination but it's not about talent. So, because I think of talents. I think most people think of them this way but, you know, talent. I will use the term talent, because it's a nice shortcut. So you can be a talented writer, but I still say it's a skill. You can be a talented painter, but it's a skill you you might have an inclination towards those things might have an aptitude for them, based on your past experience based on, you know, the family you were born into maybe, maybe some genetic quirk is benefiting you, but you still have to learn that skill and nurture that skill. No, as far as I know, no pianist has ever sat down at, you know, a year old, or two years old, old enough to put their fingers on a piano keyboard and simply played. Yeah. Maybe there are examples of this that I'm not thinking of I you know it seems like I've heard stories like this before, but I still would not call that talent. At this point I may start to infuriate you because I don't think it's talent. I think that they might have certain natural inclinations that allow them to instantly understand things like scale. The musical scale. Okay, so there are a lot of, lot of people in play by ear. Actually, so there's an example I just thought I wonder what I do know about a blind. I think they were blind, a child blind born with certain think maybe some developmental issues. And they did have the ability to sit down and play a tune anything they could hear they could play. I still argue that that's not talent, but as instead of this, they have a natural ability to do that. But it doesn't, it comes from, you know, some other part of their brain that has a resonance with the idea of playing notes and scales, understanding those notes and scales and then understanding the relationship between those notes and scales and the keyboard feel like I'd got off in the weeds, after all. But, okay. so I, if, if there is talent and natural talent for something. I would bend enough to say that example might be it. I still don't believe it. I still don't think that that's what that is. Because when we talk about talent, it's, it's like almost saying magic, you know, they always say so talented is a talented pianist. He's talented because he practiced He's talented because he, you know, he has a natural ear for harmonies, a natural ear for, you know, the, you know, replicating the notes, and that sort of thing wasn't born knowing how to read music wasn't born, understanding, music, and musical theory. So that's where I kind of, I kind of veer off to the side. Okay, So, the designer mentioned that he mentioned another cover designer who is far more skilled than he is who does better work than he does by his This is his admission, I don't know. I haven't seen either of these people's work I don't know. So where I think I may have irritated people and you can understand why is that I said you know the real difference between you and him is he wants it more. And that, I think does irritate people, but the heart of what I was trying to say the point I was trying to make. It's not about your natural talent. That's a limiting idea to limiting way of thinking. If you think I'm only so talented. Then you've already limited the, the level of success you can achieve. But if you think, oh, he wants it more than I do. Then you have room to grow. So, if I am a pianist. And I hear another pianist who is far better than I am far more talented will say, than I am. If I say he's more talented than me. I only have so much talent, then I've just limited myself I can't achieve beyond this natural barrier. But if I say he's very skilled. You know, he wants it, he, he has a passion for it.

Kevin Tumlinson 14:07

I can try to emulate that that desire and that passion and improve my skill.

Kevin Tumlinson 14:17

These are

Kevin Tumlinson 14:18

fundamentally different ways of thinking, right, and if you read. Dr. Schwartz book mindset. It talks about this kind of idea to the closed mindset versus the open mindset. Right. And in this case, that's exactly what I'm talking about the idea of defaulting to. It's all about talent, in my opinion, is a closed mindset defaulting to. It's about passion drive the decision to put in the time, energy and effort to, to improve to improve this skill to learn what I need to know to put in that the practice to perfect my technique. That's an open mindset that it comes down fundamentally to, you know, I am I am one of these people. I love when people say it like that. I'm one of these people I'm one of those people. I am a, I am the type of person who believes that all human beings have have essentially the same potential from birth, till death. Right. There are always going to be limiting factors, it's all going to be challenges and obstacles. But we all start on this to me, we all start especially in the same playing field. Those who were born with developmental disorders, with physical limitations and disabilities. You know, you can, you can definitely make the argument that they are, they are not on the same level field as other people, but I still say in terms of potential. We're all the same. We all have the same potential at birth, and where we take that potential is up to us. If we let our natural limitations, define us. If we let them determine our how high we can get one second. I think I've cleared it. Okay. Starting you'll flip me there sorry about that.

Kevin Tumlinson 16:27

If we let

Kevin Tumlinson 16:30

the,

Kevin Tumlinson 16:31

the idea that we are born with certain limitations, determine how much how far we can go in life. Then we've already limited our life, I believe, no matter what your limitations. If you decide I'm, I'm going to go as far as I can go. You'll get much further than you, then deciding, I'm going to go as far as my capabilities will let me. I will go as far as my disability will let me, I will go as far as my talent will let me. Can. I'm hoping you are seeing what I'm saying here. And that you didn't tune out the instant I said I didn't believe in talent. So, this is where it comes down, this is what it comes down to for me. I believe that the difference between a soso writer and a really, quote, talented writer, is that the soso writer doesn't want it as much as the talented writer does, they don't, they don't want it enough to commit to putting in the time they don't want it enough to put in the energy to learn the new skills to be vulnerable and ask for feedback. This is an ironic thing for me to say, by the way, because I am notorious for saying I don't want anybody's feedback here. This is one of those. Do as I say, not as I do. No, no I enry in truth I am actually open to people's feedback I just am selective about what feedback I'll accept. I will only accept feedback from people who have done what I'm trying to do, which makes me kind of a curmudgeon when it comes to like editors. I'm saying this because I just had this conversation with Nick Bakker and Ernie Dempsey about developmental editors and how I don't want them. I don't want to deal with developmental editors, because unless that developmental editor has, you know, charted on the New York Times list and you know legitimately listed on these services with best sellers gotten movie deals you know done all the things that I would like to happen in my career. If they are, if they've done all that I will certainly listen. But, Nick rightly in in justly pointed out that for some. They have talents, quote unquote, in, in the area of editing and helping to nudge other writers towards perfecting their work, rather than producing that work themselves. So I don't want to fall into the trap of those who do, or those who can do and those who can't teach you know that's a bogus sort of idea we all know that even if you are not capable of doing something yourself, you can provide feedback that can be helpful to others we know this is the truth. So I will, I will gladly accept that that is,

19:43

that is,

Kevin Tumlinson 19:44

you know, legitimately, a very fine point, and I accept it. So, I would argue it's not talent, however, is inclination, and aptitude, which are by the way included in the definition of talent so you can take this for what you want. But I think that some people do have an aptitude for reading and understanding story and flow and characterization and language. Even if they themselves do not have an aptitude for writing it. So you don't have to be a painter, be a skilled painter, to understand and appreciate a painting. You don't have to be a skilled writer to appreciate good writing, you know, and to understand how story works, and to understand how to fix problems. So, completely accept that. I still just don't think it's talent. Ultimately, here's where, where I come down. I don't believe in talent as an excuse. That's really what it comes down to. I believe that if you want to improve as a writer. The way you improve is to write more. You can accept feedback you can go to a developmental editor Don't let me deter you from that just because I don't want to deal with developmental editors doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't what it comes down to is how much do you want it and what are you willing to do to get it. That's why I don't believe in talent has some inborn, not just capability but limitation. I really what it comes down to is I object to talent as a limit. I object to the. The reason I don't like to talk about someone being talented and don't like to attribute their success to talent is because to me that is like putting them in this little box that says You were always destined to do it. You had all the advantages. I had none. You know I didn't have the same advantages you did and therefore I won't, I will never be able to do what you did that to me irks me to the point of wind do just stab people, figuratively and metaphorically, by the way. So, I hope, I hope that makes sense and I hope you understand where, where I'm where I'm coming from with this. Because in the end, you can use the term talent all you want. I just, I, and I know there are plenty of people there's a mindset in this world. And I've never been able to counter it once people start thinking this way and they've decided this is the way the world actually works. You know, these concepts that certain people are born with certain advantages or privileges or, you know, talents, and that's, that's just reality and, you know, it gives them an advantage or whatever I just don't believe that. I believe that we all can achieve anything we want to achieve. Will we always be able to succeed. No, not always. Sometimes you want to. You strike out there and you want to become the world's best pianist and the best you may you manage do is playing in, you know, hotel bars or something. You never make Carnegie Hall. That's okay. It doesn't mean you were limited from the start. It just means, and we need to accept some personal responsibility in this but it just means you didn't want it bad enough, you didn't work in the right way. You didn't work hard enough. It's not. It's not a failure. You know, you didn't get to the goal you said, but it was, it's, it's a bit like saying I didn't get to. I didn't get to New York City. No matter how often I drove to Colorado, I never got to Oklahoma City, or I'm sorry to New York City I have drafted digital in the brain, and no matter how often I drove to Colorado, no matter how many times I drove to Denver, never ended up in New York City. That's the way this works. If you no matter how often you wrote archaeological thrillers Kevin Tumlinson you never ended up with a book on Oprah. Because, Oprah doesn't read those, or if she does read them she doesn't include them in her little book club. If I want an Oprah style success, you know, if I want a New York Times bestseller if I want the things that I want for my career, then I have to do the things that will get me there, which is not to say that my books couldn't do that by the way, it's just saying that

Kevin Tumlinson 24:41

I have to. I have to accept that I will always get the results that I work for, and so will you. No matter what it is, it's, it's writing for us because we're independent authors that's that's who we are. But in other aspects of your life. It's, you know, if you want to be a certain type of parent, you have to do the things that type of parent will do you have to commit to it be willing to do it and do it. It's not about. Were you born with it. It's not about you don't have the gene for it is about the plan, it's about the system, it's about the responsibility you take for it. That's what it's about. Agree with me. Disagree with me I understand on on either side, you are welcome to counter my points. You can email me if you want, pop on over to Wordslinger podcast, calm and hit the contact button. Send me, you know, those in the Oh, you can also comment by the way on the show notes for this episode but burn me to the ground, I'm fine with it. If you don't agree if you do agree, let me know that too. And share this I this was kind of rambling. And actually, I'm testing something by the way, I'm testing something called otter.ai otter voice meeting notes I think is what it's really called, and I'm recording this in that because it's doing the transcript, as I talk. This is not an endorsement they are not sponsoring the show, but a, an author I did some coaching for told me about this, and I was trying it out, it worked. It has worked very well for the transcripts I'm doing for the show for webinars and that sort of thing, and has a live recording transcription thing that I just think is pretty amazing. It seems to be fairly accurate. What I'm going to do is I'm going to pop this whole transcript up unedited not going to edit it, I'm just going to pop it right up on this episode. And I want you to take a look and see what you think of it and let me know. And maybe I can give them sponsor me for future for future episodes but. Anywho, I'm going to go ahead and wrap up my 30 minutes and then I Clinton close to 30 minutes, I wanted to tell you. This is probably the last episode before the New Year, probably last episode for Christmas. And I want to tell you. I just appreciate everything about you. Okay. I don't know where you are in your career. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish. I don't know how close or how far you are from that. But what I want you to take away from this episode from the whole show from everything that I do in the author community. What I want you to take away from all of this is, you have hope. And you are not alone. I'm here. There are no hundreds of other influencers in this business. You know draft a digital is here for you, and it reads that as draft a digital that's pretty interesting. But I you know there's lots of us here lots of us out looking out for you. And there's a whole huge community of other authors, whatever you're facing, whether it's about writing or about your life. I want you to know there's always someone here for you. So, yeah, that's that's the gist. And no matter what, what level you are right now in your career where no matter where you are and where you think you need to be. Just remember, it's not, it's not some mystical magical undefinable thing that that defines your you in your career. Talent does not define you. What defines you is how much responsibility Are you willing to take for yourself, how much effort. Are you willing to put in to achieve your goals. How big are your dreams. These are the things that actually define your career, these are the things that actually will help you to build and grow the kind of author career you want if you can answer these questions. Honestly, and then determine from there what you, what you really want versus what you say you want, and then take responsibility for making changes, doing the things that you absolutely 100% know should must be done. Then, if you're willing to do that, then you can get to where you're trying to go, I promise you.

Kevin Tumlinson 29:43

You know, if you're if you are not achieving the thing you think you want. I swear to you I promise you if you look deep and you are honest with yourself, you will find that you're not doing the things that will get you there. You know owning it. you not wanting it enough, you're not taking enough responsibility. You can get mad at me I will give you full permission to be mad at me. But if you continue. If you continue to play victim, rather than taking responsibility and owning your career and your life choices your life itself. Then you will always get what's handed to you, you will never get what you actually want. And that's, that's the truth. So, God bless you. I hope that you hope you have a wonderful Christmas, wonderful new year safe, happy, healthy, warm, filled with friends, family, I hope. Hope for All the best for you. And you're not alone. And I'll see you all next time.